Who compares to José Ramírez; how Cavs fans should feel about Donovan Mitchell’s future; Deshaun Watson, No. 23? (2024)

CLEVELAND, Ohio — It’s time for this week’s episode of the Terry’s Talkin’ podcast with cleveland.com columnist Terry Pluto and host David Campbell. This was taped late Tuesday afternoon, the day the Guardians continue their series in Colorado against the Rockies. Terry says he has a Hall of Famer who reminds him of José Ramírez; and we get into why the Stephen Vogt era is off to such a wildly successful start.

Also we discuss the Cavs after Friday’s season-ending press conference with team president Koby Altman, and how fans should feel about the Cleveland future of Donovan Mitchell.

We look at the Pro Football Focus quarterback rankings for 2024, which have Deshaun Watson No. 23 out of 32 starters. And we remember D-Day and the contributions of wartime journalist Ernie Pyle as the 80th anniversary of the invasion approaches.

Terry has asked fans to send in stories of when and how they got a foul ball at a baseball game. We read a couple more of those. You can email your foul ball story, along with any other comments or questions you may have about the podcast, to sports@cleveland.com, and put “Terry’s Talkin’” in the subject line.

Want to keep up with everything Terry is writing? Check out his new weekly newsletter, which comes out every Wednesday and is available to subscribers.

If the player above doesn’t work, you can listen to this week’s podcast here.

A full transcript of the podcast is below. As it is computer-generated, it will contain many spelling and grammar errors.

You can find previous podcasts here:

Stories by Terry Pluto

• Does Stephen Vogt have a secret formula for the Guardians’ success? Here’s his answer – Terry Pluto
• Time for a Guardians roster move. The rise of Tyler Freeman – Terry Pluto’s Scribbles

David Campbell (00:02.446)

It is time for this week’s Terry’s talking podcast. I’m David Campbell, your host, and I’m joined by Mr. Terry Pluto. How’s it going, Terry?

Terry Pluto (00:08.853)

I’m doing well, David.

David Campbell (00:10.702)

Good. Hey, a couple of housekeeping things at the top. We got a late submission. I think about a month ago, I brought up the phrase, don’t sleep on, which is just running rampant across sports. We got another submission from Larry Sullivan. He lives in Louisville, Ohio. He says, here’s my nomination for a sports phrase that needs to be banned while watching golf on TV. I often hear the commentator say, that’s a tremendous golf shot.

Terry Pluto (00:19.989)

Yes.

Terry Pluto (00:34.869)

Well, there you go.

David Campbell (00:35.79)

Larry says, of course it’s a tremendous golf shot because they’re playing golf. I never hear a commentator say that’s a tremendous baseball pitch or that’s a tremendous football pass. Just say it’s a tremendous shot. And Larry says, thank you for the great podcast. Much enjoyed and appreciated. So thanks for that, Larry. So that is a good one.

Terry Pluto (00:49.653)

our mutual friend Nate Ulrich from the Akron Beacon Journal. His is score the ball in basketball. Well, what else are they scoring besides the ball? And at one point, I like J .B. Bickerstaff, but he just said, well, we really need to have Jared Allen, you know, kind of, he’s not ready to play yet. He’s not ready to be the best version of himself. J .B. say he had a broken rib.

Somebody please I’m so glad they said it because for a couple weeks now I’ve been telling on this broadcast that I believe Didn’t know that he had a broken rib because all the symptoms that they were describing were things that I had just experienced in November, so

David Campbell (01:32.11)

His ribs were not the best version of themselves.

Terry Pluto (01:34.421)

No, they were not and you’re not going to get the best version of the ribs or even barbecued ribs within two weeks. So, so that was that. All right.

David Campbell (01:43.406)

All right, we got a lot to get to today, Terry. Do you want to start with the Cavs or the Guardians? And we got a little bit of football to talk about later. All right, let’s do baseball first. Real quick, the Guardians are 36 and 18. They’re two and a half games up on the Royals as we tape this late on Tuesday afternoon. They had their nine game winning streak snapped last night in Colorado. man, there’s so much to start with. You know, we need to start with Jose Ramirez, right? I think...

Terry Pluto (01:47.893)

Let’s do baseball. Let’s do baseball.

Terry Pluto (02:10.581)

Mm -hmm.

David Campbell (02:12.27)

I was just reading Paul Owens’ story that he just put up about 5 things we learned about the Guardians during the winning streak. Jose is batting 266, but he’s leading the majors with 54 RBI, 15 home runs and 855 OPS. He’s having a great time, like playing baseball, right? Like, and it shows every day. What are you seeing from Jose Ramirez right now?

Terry Pluto (02:33.013)

Yeah.

Terry Pluto (02:40.757)

I really think that the change in Jose began once Lindora left or he took leadership of the team. Because at that point, I think it was kind of which way to go. And especially when he signed the extension in 2022, this became his team. And I think he was hurt probably a little bit more than we realized by how poorly the team played in 23, 10 games under 500.

Because part of the reason along with wanting to play in this market play here is in his mind, he thought this team would be a consistent contender because he remember he came to the big leagues late in 2013, Terry Francona’s first year. So he never went even through a season where they were 10 under 500, like they were in 23. And I believe then, you know, Francona left, then he’s probably wondering about the new manager. You know, they all know.

Stephen Vogt is, they played against him, but do they know him? They know what kind of manager he’ll be? Nobody had a clue. So the fact that they started fast, I think just totally energized him. And of course, the other thing that I think hit him hard last year was when Ahmed Rosario was traded, because that was his friend. And they kind of helped run the clubhouse. In 2022, they basically had three big leaders in the clubhouse. I’m talking the regular players, Austin Hedges, Rosario, and Jose.

And then the guardians actually made a mistake in 23. They didn’t resign. they didn’t reside hedges. They went after Zanino six million bucks down the drain for that and Luke Melee. And then, so then you, you know, they go through that whole mess. And then, so this year, I know that he was urging kind of this, one of the things he kept telling the guys, we miss hedges.

Now fans are hung up on the 160 batting average and all that stuff. But there’s a reason this guy is wanted. Pittsburgh signed him in 23 for quite a bit of money, even though he can’t hit because he watched the way he handles pitchers and just what he means to the team. It’s not that he’s just a mascot, because the thing is, okay, the guys accept the fact he can’t hit, but they watch him catch. And if you know anything about catching, you know this guy’s a tremendous defensive catcher. So.

Terry Pluto (05:02.101)

Those sort of things I think psychologically and emotionally impacted Jose in the correct manner where he got his other, his lieutenant back to help Captain Jose run the show in the clubhouse because the players have to do a lot of that.

David Campbell (05:02.926)

I got it. I saw something the other day, Terry, that really struck me and I wanted to get your thoughts on it. When when Andros Jimenez hit that big three run home run.

Terry Pluto (05:28.693)

Mm -hmm.

David Campbell (05:29.102)

the other day at progressive field, the guardians were wearing their city connect uniforms, which has the big CLE on the front. And as he’s crossing home plate, he grabs the front of the Jersey with the CLE with both hands. Did you see this? And he kissed it as he was crossing home plate. And it was such a small gesture, but I saw that I’m like, who does that? Like I see soccer players. Sometimes they’ll kiss the crest on their, the small crest, you know, on their jerseys, but.

Terry Pluto (05:34.343)

Yeah.

Terry Pluto (05:38.837)

Yeah.

No. wow.

Terry Pluto (05:50.965)

Yeah.

Yeah.

David Campbell (05:57.198)

You’re talking about the chemistry of this team and like Hedges and, and Jose, and I just feel, and you, you see teams interviewed all the time, we have great chemistry. The guys really get along. But I’ve never seen a guy do that to his jersey with CLE or whatever on the front of a jersey. And I just get the sense that what’s happening with this team is like legit. And who knows if they’re going to win 110 games or 82. But I get the sense these guys love playing with each other.

Terry Pluto (05:59.861)

Mm -hmm.

Terry Pluto (06:18.805)

Mm -hmm.

David Campbell (06:25.774)

and they love what they have going and they appreciate it in the moment. Like that’s the sense I’m getting. Are you seeing that same kind of thing?

Terry Pluto (06:32.405)

Yeah, you know, and Jimenez, remember he, like Jose, he made a long -term commitment. He signed a seven -year contract before the 23 season and he was disappointed with how he played in 23. So this is important. You know, it’s important to him. If you notice a couple of times, Vought has said things that you almost would say about Jose. Jose, he has said that about Jimenez. he’s a baseball player. You know, he’s hardcore.

I just wish he’d stop getting hit. I’m very serious about this. I mean, this, he’s not a big guy and he get hit in the arm and he got hit in the head the other day and the foot. I mean, this guy’s such a valuable player because not only is he, you know, an elite defensively, he’s hitting pretty much. He’s a tremendous base runner too. And as you could tell, he is a guy that will emerge into a leader as he grows there. And so that’s a, I know at one point,

This goes back to like when they had Jason Giambi and some of these other guys that Francona had over the years in there. The Guardians, they’ve even done their, put their analytics people on trying to put numbers on clubhouse chemistry. They haven’t really been able to come up. Antonetti and I were just having a casual conversation once he says, we’re really studying this. He goes, Tito has brought this to the forefront with us. We’re trying to figure out how to do it.

And if we can figure out what kind of goes beyond just, he’s a good guy, you know, what it is. And I appreciate that as opposed to just what the raw numbers are. You know, it’s kind of like, I just sort of know when you have it, as you said, you see that. And.

You look at the bullpens for the most part, they’ve had the whole time really since Carl Willis has been here and even back to when, before that, you know, they, for the most part, they’ve been really good. Last year was the exception and that is, there was a certain chemistry in the bullpen and interesting too. I don’t know if you noticed that last year, the bullpen coach was a Sweeney who has been here for quite a while. He, I believe he is now the pitching coach for the Royals. the Royals jumped in and grabbed him.

Terry Pluto (08:44.245)

And all of a sudden their pitching is turned around. I’m sure he brought all the, you know, the pitching factory stuff that the, guardians have over to Kansas city. And how about the Royals? That’s the other fun thing too. It’s not just a guardian, you know, the central division where everybody was supposed to be terrible and they shouldn’t even be allowed in the big leagues. You know, it should be like soccer and they all should be sent to the international league. Well, all of a sudden these teams are winning and they’re not just beating up on each other to schedule now.

isn’t as soft where they’re playing each other. And the fact is that I know the Guardians, the last time we looked were I believe 14 and seven against winning with teams with winning records and the Royals or something like that too.

David Campbell (09:26.798)

Yeah, it’s cool to see and everything. The whites actually kind of team that stinks and the rest of the twins ran off. I think the twins ran off 10 in a row and yeah.

Terry Pluto (09:30.901)

Yeah, yeah. And the Tigers are getting better, you know, up and down. And as we’re talking, I’m just checking to make sure that, yes, he was a, Sweeney was a bullpen coach with the Guardians in 22. So he went over there in 23 to Kansas City. So it probably took a year to implement some of the stuff that he did here. And, you know, they’re good at pitching. They, I mean, Ben Lively.

That guy had a four ERA in Korea for two years. I’m not knocking the KBO, but I’m just saying, you know, really? He has a five lifetime ERA in the big leagues until this year.

David Campbell (10:13.102)

and during the win streak and yeah you probably saw this terry but one of the meds announcers this happened since our last podcast called him blake lively on one of the broadcasts so so ben lively left tickets for blake lively and for ryan reynolds and during for sunday’s gaming in la and i don’t think either of them showed up but it was it was a nice gesture nonetheless it was like the old football coach jerry glanville used to give leave tickets for elvis i think at every at every game he played and it kind of reminded me of that so

Terry Pluto (10:14.037)

Sure enough, yeah.

Terry Pluto (10:22.197)

Yeah!

Terry Pluto (10:32.629)

Okay.

David Campbell (10:43.278)

Hey, I want to go back to Jose for a minute. I’ve been thinking, Cleveland fans want Jose to win an MVP award at some point. And I know we’ve, we talked last year, maybe in previous months about how hard that’s going to be for him, No. 1, playing in Cleveland. And the way the Guardians have been talking about Jose, I think, is very interesting in that it’s not going to help. He’s an incredible player, but like even Chris Villaca, the hitting coach, and Steven Vogt talk about, he’s not 6 ‘7″, like he’s not Aaron Judge.

Terry Pluto (10:49.717)

Mm -hmm.

Terry Pluto (11:12.245)

Yeah.

David Campbell (11:13.294)

And he doesn’t hit 450 -foot home runs that are going to lead SportsCenter in the middle of July during a pennant race. And he’s just this incredible baseball player who, who just does everything well and is underappreciated. And they talked about his incredible ability to barrel up the ball, that there was only maybe another one or two other people in baseball that they saw with the same physique that do it the way he does. And they’re, they’re able to hit, you know, I think Jose’s got what, 15 home runs.

Terry Pluto (11:32.597)

Mm -hmm.

David Campbell (11:42.766)

But do you think the way Jose plays is going to hurt him in terms of getting, you know, MVP, MVP, or will the Guardians have to rip off like a 15 game win streak and win the division for him to have a chance this year?

Terry Pluto (11:57.525)

I just don’t think he’s going to win one. It’s a Cleveland thing. And it’s also Jose thing. Jose does not like this attention. You know, now and then he does an interview and that’s it. And he’s not interested particularly in it. I’m sure it’d be fun to win an MVP to him, but he’s not going to go anything out of his way to create it. Cause that’s just not his personality. Jose plays a little bit his style, especially when he’s going well.

Like George Brett. Now Brett hit for a higher average, but I remember this is an old thing, early eighties Royals. They had George Brett and Hal McCrae batting back to back to back. Now this is when I’m covering the Royals, excuse me, the Orioles in 79, you know, the great Orioles team. And Earl Weaver hated playing the Royals. He said, cause half that team there, when they hit a single, they’re thinking double. I mean, sort of what sounds like the, the guardians.

David Campbell (12:28.782)

That’s a good comparison.

Terry Pluto (12:55.989)

He said, Nat Brett, I don’t know what, you know, how to pitch them, no matter what we do. He’s just crushing it. He doesn’t just pull it. He has to the opposite field. He goes in Hal McCray and a really good player who’s lost in baseball history. the same thing. And the, those two guys really push each other. And he says, he said, Atona, he goes, they are just tough to play against because they’re very athletic. and so when, especially when Jose’s having these good years, he reminds me of Brett. I mean, one year, I mean,

I think Brett had been up to like 380 or 390. So I’m not comparing, comparing, I’m told it because it’s in the hall of fame, but like the kind of year that Jose’s having now and the kind of years had a couple other times are Brett type seasons. And maybe because he plays third base too. Brett was not great at third, but he was good. And you know, even Jose, when he makes a sensational play, it sort of looks like it’s very hard. You know, he, no, yeah, nothing.

David Campbell (13:51.502)

They are, they’re kind of built the same way and they play third the same way, right? Yeah.

Terry Pluto (13:53.941)

Nothing comes easy for these guys. And I think that’s the point when voting those guys are talking about it. And Brett never got his due, even though the Royals were tremendous for quite a while because he played in Kansas City. And the same thing with Jose here. I love to watch how he rubs off on the other guys. And there is a, I think a sense too, they don’t want to let him down. And

Vote is so blessed than his first managing job where his best player wants to be here, made a commitment to the franchise and plays as hard or harder than anybody else in the roster, hates to take a day off. When you have that, you’re just, you hit the lottery on who’s gonna be my star and my rookie year as a manager. I mean, imagine, you know, like if your vote, and this is a, I mean, if you’re,

your vote and you run into Albert Bell in the middle of his career. Yeah, he plays hard or whatever, but then you got, he doesn’t want to run sometimes, you know, he’s not kind of lackadaisical in the field. You know, I’m just saying you, you, you don’t have to worry about any of that with there. I know that said, by the way, I voted for Albert every time I think the three years or whatever he was on the hall of fame ballot. So this is not a personal, I didn’t like his personality or he uplam me once or whatever. Great player. But I’m just simply saying.

He had Hargrove who managed those personalities beautifully. When Tom Hamilton and I were writing the book Glory Days about the Indians of the 90s, that was one of the things we really wanted to underline is how well Hargrove handled a very talented but a very sometimes difficult team to manage.

David Campbell (15:42.958)

All right, yeah, that’s really interesting, Terry, the George Brett comparison and the point about just, you can see, you know who the leaders on this team are, and you can see it every day in the way they play. And I think you’re right, you can’t really underscore how important that is. So Tyler Freeman, this situation has gone from, man, who are the Guardians gonna play in center field, to a guy who, when Stephen Kwan went down, goes into the leadoff spot.

Terry Pluto (15:50.005)

Yeah.

Terry Pluto (16:05.461)

Mm -hmm.

David Campbell (16:10.734)

I think that again is not a hoisy story today about the winning streak, but he had 294 with eight runs, three doubles and seven RBIs during the streak. And in 14 games as Kwan’s replacement in the leadoff spot, he’s hitting 302 with six doubles, 13 walks. I’m sorry, 13 runs and six walks. Pretty, that’s pretty something, right?

Terry Pluto (16:17.461)

Mm -hmm.

Terry Pluto (16:29.749)

Yeah.

Well, when they made the commitment to Freeman for center, they believe one that they, they just couldn’t do miles straw anymore. And by the way, I was looking it up. I don’t know what’s with miles. I mean, this is, he’s in two 16 of Columbus. I mean, that’s just as he said, he wears the Columbus that he did in the majors. I I’m sure he’s depressed or whatever. Okay. but go back to Freeman that this is a 300 career hitter in the minors.

And they thought if he played regularly, he could hit 275 to 290 somewhere in there with more pop than miles, but that would have to, you know, be given time to do so. And he’s learning a new position and he is, you know, he is athletic. You know, we’ve talked on the broadcast a couple of times, just to refresh on infielders who became very good outfielders. Dale Murphy, I believe came up as a catcher and ended up in the outfield.

Robin Yont was a shortstop and ended up in the outfield. Rick Manning was signed as a shortstop, ended up in the outfield. And there’s a few others there. Now this is not to say that two of those guys are Hall of Famers. I believe Murphy’s in the Hall of Fame. And I know Yont is. Or like Rick won a gold glove and played I think 11 or 12 years in the majors, played a long time. So Freeman is showing.

That they made the right move. But the big thing they did is they told him in December, you’re going to be an outfielder, get ready. He went to go to your early. He worked in the outfield. It wasn’t like in early March, they turned on Medras, Ariels say, how do you feel about the outfield? I mean, that, that wasn’t fair to Ahmed, you know, by the way, he plays I’ll feel half the time now for Tampa Bay. so they did it the right way and it’s paid off for them. And you know, the Freeman hitting.

Terry Pluto (18:26.549)

There’s some real track record, at least in the minors, to show that he should be a pretty good hitter.

David Campbell (18:33.134)

Alright, Tara, I’m trying to think of a way to go on the Guardians here. you wrote your... Yeah, go ahead.

Terry Pluto (18:35.829)

Okay, something very interesting I have mentioned before about Andrew Walters, the double A pitcher at Akron. He just got called up to Columbus today. I mentioned don’t be surprised even though it’s his first year in pro ball, he ends up in the big leagues. Because we’ve been kind of kind of in 20 innings at Akron. Now remember 20 innings is only 60 outs. Okay. How many of them were strikeouts?

David Campbell (19:05.646)

12?

Terry Pluto (19:06.773)

No, 38! He struck out 38 guys at 20 innings!

David Campbell (19:08.622)

Really?

So only 22 guys put bat on ball and made an out that way. Wow.

Terry Pluto (19:15.957)

Yeah, right. His ERA is 135. You’ll like this. When he was a closer for at the University of Miami, he had his last year, he had more saves, 26, than runs allowed, 12. He struck out 134 in 77 innings. This could be your next Cody Allen.

Cody Allen came up through the minors fast. And I think within a year and a half, he was in the big leagues and he was closing within three. And if they could come up with, you know, closer A and closer B on this team to take some of the load off of Klasay, would that be tremendous? And you know, Klasay’s having another all -star year. So Walters, watch how he does in Columbus. He can move up pretty quick.

David Campbell (20:12.238)

Well, and they might have closed their C with Cade Smith already on the big league team. Yeah. Yeah. he, I wanted to talk real quick about Steven Vogt. Terry, you, you wrote about him over the weekend and I think your headline was about the, what’s the special formula that he has? What is it that you’ve seen, you know, we’re fourth of the way into the season. Well, more than that, a third almost, right? what are you seeing from him in terms of what he’s doing and, and why it’s working? I just want to touch on this real quick because it’s an important discussion.

Terry Pluto (20:14.837)

Yeah, possibly too, yeah.

Terry Pluto (20:26.165)

Yeah.

Terry Pluto (20:41.557)

Well, we’re starting, I keep going back to the incredible success of the bullpen. And he has to at least get some of the credit for that. If nothing else, he’s letting Carl Willis and the other coaches run it. He’s not getting in the way. He’s using these guys well. I’m still worried about them pitching in too many games, but that’s part of it. Secondly, he’s very careful to know how this thing could flip. He takes no credit for anything.

I mean, the other day he goes, I’m not doing anything. I’m just like writing it up the line. Well, that’s not true. But I think he is, a different voice than Tito. Last year for Tito was hard. physically he knew that, he was really breaking down. And then you start thinking, you get a little older. Do I have the energy that I had before the last few years? He mentioned several times, like he felt he wasn’t doing their job the way it should be done. This was even in 22 when they were winning because of.

all the surgeries and everything else he had. And so it carried over and I think somewhere around mid season, he just sort of knew it was going to be his last year. at least for now, I mean, who knows if he can get himself healthy again, he’s such a baseball creature. He might want to manage again. And so they come in with a guy with a lot of energy. I remember one point Tito said, you know, these get some of these guys and I don’t blame them. Look at me like I’m their grandfather. He’s in his sixties. They’re in their twenties. So it was an in.

That dynamic, I think, was going on. This is something different. Now had how vote come in here and wanted to turn everything upside down and that. But, you know, voters very respectful. He says the culture is here. You know, just had to kind of get, maybe get back to a little bit of 22, but the culture’s here. And so he was probably the right guy at the right time. Who knew right now he would have been two years ago. He’s catching for the, the ACE. Last year he was sitting in the bullpen for,

Seattle now I went back and looked at the story that I wrote when they hired him and I was talking to some people on background with the Guardians ago, you know this guy had only one year of coaching in that and He said to me and how many years did Kevin Cash have? Actually, the answer was to as a bullpen coach with Cleveland then he went to Tampa Bay they didn’t want to say this publicly but they believe they had found their own version of

Terry Pluto (23:09.909)

Kevin Cash.

David Campbell (23:12.974)

And it’s working out that way so far. I was interested that you, part of your column, Terry, you talked about catchers and the old baseball adage that catchers make good managers. So I looked up how many of the current major league managers do you think were catchers? If you had to guess.

Terry Pluto (23:14.229)

Yeah, so far.

Terry Pluto (23:18.997)

Mm -hmm.

Terry Pluto (23:30.357)

I have no clue. Seven.

David Campbell (23:32.366)

13. 13. So, so that leads the list. And I went through and added the rest of 8 infielders, 5 outfielders. That includes, you know, some guys played short and second or third and short or whatever. Outfielders? Sure. Yeah. So 13 were catchers, 8 infielders, 5 outfielders, 2 played infield and outfield. And there were 2, there’s 2 pitchers. And I think Mike Schilt of the Cardinals never made the major leagues. So, so he’s the only one.

Terry Pluto (23:33.653)

Almost half.

Terry Pluto (23:40.149)

Okay.

Terry Pluto (23:43.573)

Yeah. Yeah, utility guys often are managers.

Terry Pluto (23:59.893)

Huh. Who are the pictures?

David Campbell (24:03.278)

I don’t know. I’d have to look that up. You caught me. I just totaled up. I think, I don’t think so. I’ll get that for next week. I’ll get that for next week. I did.

Terry Pluto (24:04.391)

Yeah, you did that, but I’m having a blank out. Is Bud Black still managing or not? I don’t think he is. All right. See, you left yourself open to that for the next question. Yeah, they do. And essentially, I would say in the last 10 years or so, even though before that, because they really do have to work with not just a pitcher, not just a pitching coach, they’re working with usually some sort of analytics guy.

They’re working with a video guy because they’re incorporating him as a second coach to the pitcher to do that. So that allows them to just work at the game a higher level than a first baseman or something like that.

David Campbell (24:52.654)

All right, a couple more things on the Guardians here, Terry. I did want to mention right before we started taping, I saw that the rubber ducks have activated Chase DeLotter from the seven day injury list. So he’s going to be back taking the bets for them. And we do have a question here from Terry Ramey from Burlington, North Carolina. Terry’s a long time listener and he has a Josh Naylor question. He says, Hey, Dave and Terry, I love the show and look forward to it each week. Question, what is your take on what the Guardians will do with Josh Naylor this off season?

Terry Pluto (24:59.989)

That’s good.

David Campbell (25:20.27)

Isn’t he a free agent after this season or is it next year? It’s obvious they won’t be signing him to a long -term contract and they have replacements waiting in the wing for first base and DH. They would get more trading him a year early. I love him as a player and just a stand -up guy, but it won’t work out contract wise. Thank you both and keep up the great podcast. Again, that’s from Terry Ramey in Burlington. So you think he’s right, Terry. It’s Josh Naylor’s time here short or not.

Terry Pluto (25:43.541)

Okay.

Terry Pluto (25:48.693)

Alright, let’s look at a couple of things. Go ahead. Right.

David Campbell (25:50.542)

I can give you the, I got the contract stuff right here. So he’s making 6 .5 this year. And then he has, he’ll be in arbitration. His last year of arbitration will be between 24 and 25. So the guardians do have team control in 2025 of them based on how the arbitration goes. And then he will be an unrestricted free agent in 2026. So there you go. All right.

Terry Pluto (26:02.165)

Correct, so after 25...

Terry Pluto (26:07.381)

Mm -hmm.

Terry Pluto (26:11.445)

Yes. Yeah, before the 20th. No worries. He’s a free agent after 25. Yeah. to me, this is a tough one. You can certainly offer him some sort of contract, but the physical things with him, he’s, he is overweight and he’s had some, I think he’s never played more than 130 games in a year, something like that. And so those are considerations you have to take.

David Campbell (26:15.886)

Correct.

Terry Pluto (26:38.133)

Nonetheless, he also could be peaking as a hitter, although of late, we’ll get the stats as we’re talking, but he has been really struggling in the month of May. And right now he looks kind of lost up there, but I would offer him some, but I’m not going, you know, seven years and I don’t know, you know, some crazy contract like this, seven years, 150 million or something. You know, I would go short.

And just kind of see how that, I mean, right now he’s down to two 29, the OPS is seven 94. And, I just think that, you know, his last. boy. He’s seven for 58 is last 15 games, batting one 21. And, you know, I see he’s, I’ll tell you, this has been going on a while. How about his last 30 games? Where do you think he’s sitting over his last 30 games, David?

David Campbell (27:35.054)

to 14? Really? Every time I guess you say he wishes, I’m always high. I gotta come in lower on some of these.

Terry Pluto (27:36.469)

He wishes. 162.

Yeah, yeah, he wishes. Yeah. Well, I didn’t I would never have guessed that. So to my point, this is a really good time to see it. Does he pull out of it? How does he handle it? All that stuff. It’s a total wait and see on him.

David Campbell (27:58.35)

It is, and 27 years old this season and his like, like Terry mentioned, in his email, Kyle Manzardo is waiting in the wings to step into that role, which, which changes some of the math.

Terry Pluto (28:00.789)

Mm -hmm.

Terry Pluto (28:08.021)

Yes, Manzardo for I was told by somebody high up, he really needs to work on his defensive first base and he is, but he’s, he’s a hitter. He’s not a real good glove man. I mean, at one point, I don’t know if they’ve done it or not vote and passing mentioned something. We’re going to kind of work them in the outfield a little bit. I’m like, no, don’t do that. You just coming up here now, let them play and just go with that. So that’s a.

That’s where they’re at. Now, what have you thought? I wanted to ask you any thoughts early on on Jonathan Rodriguez?

David Campbell (28:44.75)

think he’s been a breath of fresh air and he’s come up with a few big hits and yeah like it’s going okay right that’s what I say anytime we talk about Rokia or any of these young guys like they’re not in panic mode because things are going good they’re getting offensive production I think they were they’re number two in run production in the American League yeah and so like you don’t need to be panicking because your shortstop isn’t hitting or nailer goes into a tailspin like

Terry Pluto (28:48.053)

Mm -hmm.

Terry Pluto (28:54.069)

Yeah.

Terry Pluto (29:02.101)

Yeah, run scored, yeah.

Terry Pluto (29:09.173)

Mm -hmm.

David Campbell (29:11.758)

All these guys are kind of contributing a little bit every day and it’s working. So I don’t know, where are you at with them?

Terry Pluto (29:15.509)

It is a classic thing that the whole is much better than the parts when you break it down Rodriguez I’m very glad he’s not Ramon L ‘Oreal. I couldn’t watch it anymore. Remember I said I was an atheist about L ‘Oreal early on no faith and it makes no sense to watch that and Even though they were paying on five million. All right, you blew it just like was in Zanino last year You blew it and the only thing worse than blowing it

is keeping that mistake around. So I want to see more of them. You know, he looks like he’s got some power. He can really throw from the outfield. You know, he’s got some things going for him. The great thing is now when you get Quan back, you know, so you get Quan in left and you then you’ve got Freeman in center. You have two starting outfielders. So then you’re really trying to fill the other spot with different guys. I did look in the liners at a couple of other things before we let him go.

George Valera is finally playing. He’s batting 171. You know, he could never stay healthy. He’s a kind of perpetual prospect. There really isn’t much going on down there in terms of anybody hitting or really anybody pitching. Probably Anthony Ghost would be the guy that they might bring up. The guy that I like, Nick Inright, he had nine scoreless innings and struck out 17 and he’s been on the injured list for like over a month now.

Pitching a little better now Eli Morgan was out. He’s he’s pitched eight innings in relief. He’s got a three to four ERA. So Morgan would probably be the next one to come up and they’re going to need help. They’re going to have to keep looking whether it’s Morgan or Walters. They’re going to keep those arms in the bullpen coming.

David Campbell (30:59.182)

All right, I think we’re ready for a break, Terry. That sound good? All right, when we come back, you were out at Colby Altman’s Cavs availability on Friday. When we come back, I’m going to ask you a question, or actually it’s a fill in the blank. Cavs fans should feel blank about Donovan Mitchell after hearing Colby Altman on Friday. So we’ll get into that and more when we come back on Terry’s Talking.

David Campbell (31:24.846)

Hey, we’re back on Terry’s talking David Campbell, Terry Pluto. Terry, before I pull a hosting blunder, I do want to mention your new newsletter, which I know you’ve been putting a lot of thought and time into. It comes out every Wednesday at noon and it is for subscribers of Cleveland .com. It is really cool. You should check it out. It’s a lot of kind of behind the scenes stuff that Terry doesn’t put up on the website. Go to Cleveland .com slash Pluto and you can see all of Terry’s stuff there. There’s a blue bar at the top of that page. And if you click on that blue bar, it will take you to a page inviting you to sign up for Terry’s newsletter and.

You’ll get more. So check it out again, cleveland .com slash Pluto. All right, Terry, it’s Cavs off season. There’s some big decisions coming up. You were out at the Colby Altman availability on Friday. And before we took our break, I wanted to ask you, Cavs fans should feel blank about Donovan Mitchell after hearing Colby Altman speak last Friday. How would you fill in that blank? They should feel how.

Terry Pluto (32:27.957)

Well, they better sign him after all the Colby Altman said, because otherwise Colby Altman, I think is going to look pretty bad, which is why I was surprised. He was so positive about, Donovan said he likes it. He’s gone on the record saying he likes it here. You know, we talked all about the future. I mean, it sounded like they believe Donovan is all in. And as a president of the team, for you to go out there, you’re out in the robot with him to some stormy seas.

You got to hope he’s staying in that rowboat with you. so from a very practical standpoint, I’ve laid this out a couple of times in print, but the guard, excuse me, the Cavaliers can give him a longer contract. It’s a total of five years. You take his last regular season year, 35 million, and you throw 208 million on top of that. You know, David, like when you came over, where did you, where did you, where was your previous stop before the point dealer?

David Campbell (33:24.974)

The Times of Northwest Indiana right outside Chicago. That’s right.

Terry Pluto (33:26.869)

Yes, right. I knew that was a $200 million deal back then. And then what then the money they gave you to stay. Yeah, right. So it’s such financially. The nice thing about the NBA is you. Whatever team you’re at, you can’t ask. You could either do a four year or five year deal for a player. That’s it. You don’t get these stupid 13 year contracts like in baseball. Secondly.

David Campbell (33:33.198)

Yeah, they added four years and 200 million. Yeah.

Terry Pluto (33:56.661)

you’re able to, I remember I was talking to one GM in baseball and it was a theoretical thing about one door. And he said, you know, if, baseball had a contract like the max contract, like baseball, he said, you could turn around and give Frankie the max say five years. I think back then we’d been like 200, 200 million. And he says, if you’re two or three years into that, you’re almost halfway done. If it’s not working well, you could actually trade him.

And you’re not trading the guy with nine years left on the contract. He said, it’s really, he goes that thing alone, what I think really revolutionize our sport in terms of helping us keep our stars. Cause the union fights on everything. And I think Donovan figure is like, it get more there and he may not say, but as a role, we remember he was getting plate plate with things in his knee. And then also he had the dreaded calf muscle injury at the end, over the last.

I believe he’s missed 18, about an average of 18 games a season. So, he’s 27, I’m going for it anyway, but there are some injuries hanging over it. So I think he’ll sign, and if not, I said Altman will look very bad.

David Campbell (35:10.83)

So, Cavs fans should feel encouraged or I guess is the word, right? Okay.

Terry Pluto (35:13.909)

Yeah. Yeah. And I think it should stop some of the never ending trade machine rumors on, on him. I mean, look, he wants to play for the next, well, then this can get rid of Jaylen or get rid of Brunson to, to come on, you know, he wants to play. What I was playing a big market. What’s playing Boston. I got a few in Boston’s got their players. You know, they’re not going to get rid of, whoever you want to hate them. Take your pick.

See that, that’s the thing about having a salary cap. It does force you to make some of those big, tough decisions. Unless the players going to go over there for far less money. But I think the Donovan, like a lot of these guys, in fact, I was talking to an agent friend of mine. He said, no, I’ve never done it with my players. He said, but the other thing in the back of your mind, it’s a five year deal. You go there for a couple of years, you see how it goes. And then if not, you raise a stink and try to get them to get you out of there. he said that, but that. Yeah.

David Campbell (36:07.822)

And with the reduced years on the deal, it’s easier to move you. Right, right.

Terry Pluto (36:10.229)

It’s easier to move it. Exactly.

David Campbell (36:13.422)

All right, and just for some nuts and bolts, this stuff will all be happening pretty fast because he can sign the deal, I think July 6th is the date when he can sign that. So it’s coming up pretty fast.

Terry Pluto (36:19.669)

Yeah. Yeah. Like the, their legal tampering or whatever is like June 30th and they, they tweet stuff out and all that junk right around there.

David Campbell (36:29.71)

ruin everybody’s Fourth of July weekend, as the tradition goes. So the other thing that came out of the thing Friday, Terry, was we got some kind of clarity on Jared Allen’s rib situation. And I know, yeah, which we thought, right? Yeah.

Terry Pluto (36:31.541)

Yeah.

Terry Pluto (36:39.637)

Yeah, it was broken. It’s been broken. I’ve been saying it’s broken. Yeah. And I don’t get why they didn’t say it because whether he’s saying his bruised or broken, if you’re playing as Jared Allen, you know, he’s got bad ribs. If he does get on the court, you just throw an elbow there. You don’t want to disable them. But I will say this is somebody, you know, it depends on where they fractured all the way through all this junk. But if you’ve got even a partially cracked rib and somebody, depending upon where it is, remember I’ve had.

multiple broken ribs. If they hit you in that area, it could go into a long, it could go into all kinds of internal organs. It’s a bad deal. So Jared had played 81 consecutive games. You know, players, just like the rest of us are very good at saying, well, if I have that injury, I play, you know, this is human nature. I guess Marcus Morris did. I mean, he really doesn’t, he just firstly just got here. He doesn’t know. So good for that. Secondly,

I am not interested in breaking up the combo of Mobley and Allen. I want to see this and maybe see it with a new coach, but I’m seeing Mobley’s game growing. He’s working on his outside shot. He’s becoming more, I’m not saying more athletic, but more of an understanding how to use his athleticism. And Jarrett last year figured out I’m a really good basketball player.

David Campbell (38:08.462)

Automatic double double every night.

Terry Pluto (38:09.589)

Yeah, just play it. Play it again.

David Campbell (38:13.55)

All right, so I’m gonna challenge you on something, Terry. Last week, we were talking about the Garland -Mitchell combination and you kind of have given up hope on that one, I think from what you said. So you can see the two big men working together and I think as Cavs fans watch the NBA playoffs and they see Kyrie Irving becoming less ball dominant, for lack of a better phrase, where, all right, Luke is the star of the team and...

Terry Pluto (38:21.941)

Yep.

Terry Pluto (38:35.733)

Thank you.

David Campbell (38:39.982)

Ky Reeves realized, I’m not going to have the ball in my hands. I have to find other ways to make this work. Here’s what I’m going to do, and I’m going to make it work. And now we’re headed to the NBA Finals. Do you think there’s any hope of something like that happening? Because Garland and Mitchell are both traditionally ball -dominant guys. You’re basically going to stick with what you said last week, or could you ever see a world in which Darius Garland can become a better off -the -ball player? You just not see that happening with the way his game is structured right now.

Terry Pluto (39:09.845)

Okay, when Kyrie Irving played with LeBron, he did not dominate the ball. He figured out how to make that work. When Kyrie Irving puts his mind to it, he could almost figure out any role other than center in basketball when he feels like it. And when he feels like ripping up a franchise, he does. All of a sudden this strange revisionist history of, you know, if the Cavs had just kept Kyrie,

David Campbell (39:16.334)

That’s true.

Terry Pluto (39:39.733)

Well, talk to the people in Brooklyn, how much fun it was when he was over there. Talk to the people in Boston before that and talk to even the Cavs after that last year. I mean, he just up and, you know, he’s threatened to have knee surgery if they didn’t trade them all this stuff and Gilbert, they had just had about had enough. I mean, the one executive told me is one of my favorite lines is, you know, what’s LeBron’s greatest achievement winning the title in Cleveland? Well, maybe, but right under that was having Kyrie Irving.

You know, kind of on the rails, going the right way for the three years they were together, because it’s very difficult. I think what happened with Kyrie is by the time he went to Dallas, he realized I have to, I got to get my career back together here. I have to have some success. and he seems to relate well with Donkits. And so, yes, but I guess the thing is it’s like Garland is not Kyrie Irving.

And my other concern there is.

Garland’s, he just gets hurt a lot. He’s frail. We’ve talked about that. Kyrie, while he has an injury, you know, some, some injury histories, he can go to the basket, you know, with as good as anyone. I mean, Kyrie, when Kyrie’s focused and at his best, he’s one of the best guards to ever play. But you just get all this other stuff. No, no, but I’m saying, but that’s why he can’t.

David Campbell (41:07.55)

for sure and just to be clear I’m not comparing the two of them you know in terms of legacy or skill or whatever but yeah.

Terry Pluto (41:11.893)

No, no, it’s a decent question David. It really is but I’m going deep in the basketball thing on why It’s just he’s when he’s focused he helps you win a title and When he’s not he rips up your franchise Kyrie Irving whereas Darius he could be focused he could be maybe at number two or number three guy on that title team But you know, that’s not it. You could see

David Campbell (41:29.358)

Right, careering.

Terry Pluto (41:40.949)

Donovan was dragging Garland through the playoffs dragging him, which I love that’s another reason I wanted Donovan I watched that, you know, I mean Donovan I’m sure late at night. He’s sitting there talking to a close friend is probably saying man I mean if this guy would just you know Help us out here. That would be that would be really good. But so I I don’t want to see it

I want to see more of the two big guys. And by the way, that’s because I believe finally Mobley has a lot of room to grow. I don’t know how much room Garland has. I mean, I think he can get somewhat better and stronger physically, but this is it. He’s a finished product in terms of his skillset.

David Campbell (42:21.102)

All right, great stuff, Terry. I thought that was worth getting into a little discussion there, and I’m glad we did. So hey, before we move on from basketball, the basketball world lost a giant in more than one way over the weekend with the passing of Bill Walton to cancer. I just thought I asked, did you ever run into Bill Walton? I’m sure during your days covering the Cavs or not so much.

Terry Pluto (42:37.045)

No, I didn’t. I never really did. Yeah. I mean, a group interview when he’s with Boston towards the end, but no, I love the fact that he was so unselfish as a player. I mean, his passing was remarkable. Rebounding. He just, and I was happy for him at the end of his career because, you know, he kept breaking feet. That’s what happened in there. He got to Boston, stayed healthy long enough to come off the bench, come off the bench on the great title team there when they had.

McHale and they had Parrish and they had Bird on the front line and was able to get a ring that way. So, I mean, he was eccentric guy. I mean, he really was, but it was fun to watch him do that. And whereas I believe when he was in college,

He had almost a phobia about kind of public speaking and doing interviews and that. So he went from that, which is very hard to do, to becoming a broadcaster. And so that took some real courage and things too.

David Campbell (43:42.222)

Yeah, not just that, but he kind of broadcasted the way he played, which was just in a very joyful way. And I forget, it was interesting. ESPN started running the Bill Walton 30 for 30 yesterday after the news of his passing came out. And I think it’s called the luckiest man in the world or something. And that’s the way, you never heard anybody say anything about Bill Walton other than that he was just a joy to be around and he lived joyfully every day on and off the court. Yeah.

Terry Pluto (43:49.461)

Yeah.

Terry Pluto (44:00.597)

Mm -hmm.

Terry Pluto (44:05.525)

Yeah.

Terry Pluto (44:09.557)

Everybody loved, they loved playing with him because he was so unselfish and rebounding and saying the picks. and I mean, here, you know, his politics and everything off the, because he was in all the demonstrations and stuff. He was the total opposite of John Wooten, but, you know, but on the floor, Wooten loved him. And I remember he said, or Walton told the story one time about how every year at the start of the year, Wooten had all these little things he wanted people to do.

including he had a certain way he wanted you to wear your socks because he believed that they, yeah, because it would like take care of you. Wouldn’t get the blisters and all this. And Walton said like everything in him, why does, you know, put the socks on backwards or whatever. But it was coach Wooten. I always liked that, I guess, but the coach Wooten said, so I wore my socks and tied my shoes, like he said, and coach Wooten kind of let me go to my demonstrations and you know, all that stuff. They worked it out.

David Campbell (44:43.886)

Yeah, and tie your shoes. Right.

David Campbell (45:07.118)

Ha ha.

classic. Well, a life well lived and he’ll be missed. So, all right, Terry, it is football time here. The Browns are in the middle of OTAs. They actually have moved. They were supposed to let the media out tomorrow on Wednesday to see practice, but they moved it to Thursday. And that means that everybody will get to see Deshaun Watson throw. So that’ll be interesting. But Pro Football Focus, which is probably the most respected analytics site in the game, is ranking their positions. I thought this was interesting. So,

Deshaun Watson, according to PFF, heading into 2024, they ranked the starting quarterback for every team and they have him 23rd on their list. Too high, too low or about right, Terry?

Terry Pluto (45:51.989)

what he’s earned in Cleveland. Not what he’s earned if you take the totality of his career. But this is the classic line at a, it might even be Mark Shapiro, but it was a GM, somebody, John Hart, somebody like that said to me, you know, when it comes to free agents, I’m not paying them and writing them for what they did, but what they’re going to do. And so they rank up as 23rd going into this year based on

the most recent data they have. And in my mind, he has not been even an average overall quarterback say in the last two years. So he has the great thing is there were these real beacons of hope in a couple of the games with him. And then also I think once you have to raise got it, but he’s played 12 games in three years. That’s a fact zero.

21, 6 and 22, 6 and 23.

David Campbell (46:57.454)

And here’s a PFF wrote as they ranked him 23rd. They said, Watson has been a disappointment since joining the Cleveland Browns. He has played in just six games in each of the past two seasons due to suspension and injury. And he is coming off season ending surgery to his throwing shoulder. His numbers reflect all of that. Watson’s 58 .7 cumulative PFF passing yards grade over the past two years ranks 53rd among qualifying passers.

Terry Pluto (47:20.629)

Yeah.

David Campbell (47:22.062)

Still his dominant days in a Texan’s uniform are not a figment of your imagination. Perhaps this is the year we see it again, though he is running out of time to prove it. So pretty much you’re not wrong.

Terry Pluto (47:32.181)

I’m waiting for the guy that completed 67 % of his passes in Texas. When the Browns traded for him, he had the highest completion percentage, 67 % of any quarterback who had thrown at least 1 ‚500 passes in NFL history. And it’s not because he threw three yard passes either. But that accuracy, we haven’t really seen. We’ve seen hot streaks, but not that accuracy. And.

But fact, so they moved the practice open, open till Thursday and he’s supposed to throw Thursday, is that correct?

David Campbell (48:04.206)

Yeah, I think he’s been throwing on Tuesdays and Thursdays because they don’t want him throwing three days in a row. So yeah, so they move.

Terry Pluto (48:08.053)

Sure. That’s a positive. I don’t think they would let the media in if they didn’t like how he was throwing.

David Campbell (48:18.382)

Yeah, you might be right about that. So there should be some good, interesting video coming out of practice on Thursday and we’ll see how we look. So yeah, just for the, for those wondering the top five that PFF ranked, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, and Justin Herbert rank, ranks fifth. So that’s the top five.

Terry Pluto (48:35.477)

Herbert’s one of those guys that, like, the numbers always like him better than it seems like he plays to me.

David Campbell (48:41.902)

Yeah, I think so. And, you know, he’s had some injury issues too. And, but he’s, he’s probably one of the up and coming guys, right?

Terry Pluto (48:47.381)

Well, all the quarterbacks do. I mean, Burrow was hurt last year. Lamar Jackson finally was healthy for a whole year. Allen is the one that’s really stayed healthy.

David Campbell (48:57.326)

Yeah, CJ Stroud is number 10 for those wondering and.

Terry Pluto (49:00.213)

Yeah. and Mahomes is remarkably healthy. It’s incredibly healthy. He’s like Tom Brady. He’s figured out how to play without getting hurt.

David Campbell (49:08.43)

Yeah, he spins away from hits and runs out of bounds at the right time. Let’s see. Number 20, Baker Mayfield, Tampa Bay Buccaneers. So yeah, very interesting.

Terry Pluto (49:16.725)

Did he rate Baker over... my. Well, you know, based on last year you probably would.

David Campbell (49:22.03)

Yeah, I didn’t play off game and the whole bit. So.

Terry Pluto (49:27.637)

Yeah, I mean Baker, I mean he threw like 20 some touchdown passes compared to 10 interceptions and it was a very similar year to what he had in 2020 with the Browns, which was a good year. I mean, really. If this upcoming season, what do you think about this David Watson throws 25 touchdown passes, 10 interceptions completes, you know, 61 % of his passes and they wouldn’t like 11 games.

David Campbell (50:00.174)

How many games and he plays most of this? Yeah.

Terry Pluto (50:02.293)

Probably most of them. Most of the games, yeah.

David Campbell (50:06.158)

I mean, you know how it is Terry wins or wins, right? If they make you get 11 wins, yeah, you take that.

Terry Pluto (50:09.109)

Yeah, you sign up for them. And also, I mean, if you’re throwing almost two and a half touchdown passes for every interception, because I’m just saying like 25 and 10. Yeah, I’ll sign up for that. That’ll get me into the playoffs.

David Campbell (50:20.174)

They take that. Yeah.

Terry Pluto (50:25.205)

11, you know, yeah, so I think maybe we need to look at stuff like that being realistic as opposed to what this guy did. Now, it will be the last year full year he played with 2020. I mean, that’s a long time ago.

David Campbell (50:25.39)

All right.

David Campbell (50:41.742)

Yeah, that’s something to think about. So all right. So Terry, there’s a lot going on with the NFL, the Players Association about like reducing or getting rid of OTAs and starting training camp in June and getting rid of preseason game. I.

Terry Pluto (50:54.709)

We have breaking news breaking news breaking news Very big remember I said Eli Morgan was pitching better. You’re gonna get to see him in Cleveland Yes, and they just and they just sent the Xavier and Curry back to Columbus There you go boy. There’s a there’s a show that we and we could just stop the show right there

David Campbell (50:57.966)

We do.

David Campbell (51:03.662)

Yeah. really? He’s back.

David Campbell (51:11.822)

All right, there you go, right on the podcast. There we go, anyway, I don’t know what’s going on with this OTA proposal, the 18 games, it’s all up in the air, so let’s just skip it. Like, I don’t know what else there is to say, but there’s this ongoing battle where the Roger Goodell wants to lengthen the season to 18 games, the players want less stuff that they have to do, and I don’t know how crazy they are about 18 games unless there’s more money. So we’re not gonna solve anything here, I think we should just probably move on.

Terry Pluto (51:21.205)

Yeah, please.

Okay.

Terry Pluto (51:39.605)

Yeah, I found that it yeah and then changing the training camp. That’s what’s kind of interesting. They want to like make training camp longer, but fewer things there. So I mean, look, I think eventually David, I’ll just say this. Don’t you think they’re going to be playing 18 games?

David Campbell (51:40.43)

But just know that it’s going on. It’s going on and it’s happening this week and back and forth.

David Campbell (51:55.63)

They’re going to be playing 18 games and within the next five to 10 years, there’s going to be a full NFL division in Europe. That is my prediction. Yep. All right. Okay. So we are in between this period, Terry, kind of between Memorial Day and D -Day. And I just was reading your faith in you, Colin, before we started taping here and you wrote about June 6th, 1944. Boy, it’s the 80th anniversary of this year, right? 80?

Terry Pluto (52:02.421)

Boy, they’re working on that. Okay.

Terry Pluto (52:21.845)

Mm -hmm.

David Campbell (52:22.542)

I’m doing that math right. And I know your faith in UCLM gets into the importance of that day and a journalist named Ernie Pyle. Why don’t you talk about that real quick.

Terry Pluto (52:31.829)

Well, I would say if you went out on the street and you ask people what D -Day is, what percentage of people would even know what it is? 25%, I don’t know.

David Campbell (52:42.926)

I’m gonna guess, but I’m always over Terry, so you know I’d be over. I’m gonna say 12%. That’s about it.

Terry Pluto (52:45.941)

Yeah, so you say, yeah, you wish. not many. and if you were to even tell them, you know, cause sometimes D -Day is used as like, that’s the day the project is due or that kind of stuff. But that was the day that this magnificent and military history invasion of Europe that turned world war II around by.

not just the Americans, but the allies, it was the British, the Canadians, and they went to Normandy, France. There was over a 50 mile beachhead all around. And they, within two days, they dropped like 150 ‚000 troops on there and 5 ,000 different ships and landing crafts. And they parachuted in like, I think over a hundred thousand troops and all that. And if the best movie to see it is if you got a chance to see.

the Tom Hanks movie that he did in Saving Private Brian gave you a real feel for what it was like for them. So what I wrote about is between Memorial Day and there, but it’s 80, 80 years ago. And it was just a remarkable achievement. But then, I think one of the most underrated writers ever is a guy named Ernie Pyle, another name lost in history, just like D -Day.

David Campbell (53:45.806)

Saving Private Ryan.

Terry Pluto (54:08.757)

He was considered sort of the great war correspondent of World War II. It’s PYLE. This is a book called Ernie’s War, which is a collection of his war dispatches. And he came in the day after. I mean, he would be with the GIs there. They didn’t want to go exactly up to the front. Although Ernie later on, he was killed in Japan being with the troops there. But so he comes in.

the day after the invasion. And he wrote this, this is in the book says, here in a jumble roll for mile on mile are soldiers’ backpacks. Here are socks, here shoe polish, sewing kits, diaries, Bibles and hand grenades, all scattered across the beach. Here are the latest letters from home with the dresses on each one neatly razored out, one for security precautions before the boys embarked. He says, I picked up a Bible with a soldier’s name in it.

I put it in my jacket. I carried it for about a half mile or so. Then I put it back down the beach. I don’t even know why I picked it up or why I put it back down. And he just said, and the strange one, he says, in every one of these landings I’ve been at, he called them H hours. There’s always a guy with a banjo strung over his shoulder hitting the beach. And he said, sure enough, there it was.

And there was a tennis racket that some soldier brought along. It lies lonesomely on the sand, clamped in his rack, not a string broken. Now that is so visual and so tight. It just is incredible. He was known for like interviewing some guy fixing a Jeep and you know, where are you from son? And you know, you know, I’m Fred Jones. I’m from, I’m from Parma.

Well, you know, what do your mom and dad do that? And he will put in, you know, Fred Jones from Parma fixed my Jeep when I came in and he will put in the guy’s home address. How about that?

David Campbell (56:11.15)

And so I’ve dealt a little bit with Indiana University and their journalism. I think their journalism school or their media school is named after Ernie Pyle and they have a big museum there for him. But if I remember the story, he was born on a farm in Indiana and was kind of bored by the farm life. And I think he dropped out of school and followed the Indiana University baseball team to Japan while he was in college. And that kind of lit his fire for international travel.

Terry Pluto (56:15.573)

Yeah.

Mm hmm. Yep.

Terry Pluto (56:26.037)

Mm -hmm. Yep.

Terry Pluto (56:34.677)

We’re...

David Campbell (56:39.694)

and got him kind of into the journalism and traveling the world and that got him, you know, where he was covering the war. But when he died, Terry, I think they had a huge funeral for him where all the soldiers, because he told their stories and they appreciated what he did for them in terms of recording what they were doing for the world to see.

Terry Pluto (56:49.429)

All right. he was.

Terry Pluto (56:58.801)

Yeah, he was getting more and more. He started in 43 in the theater when they were fighting in Italy. Then he went on the invasion of Normandy and then he really did not want to go to Japan, but felt he needed to, the invasion in Asia. And he was killed in Okinawa. I mean, it’s pretty remarkable. He talked about being on the ship.

Like waiting to for the invasion to go on He says shells from battleships are whamming over our heads occasionally a dead man floated face down past us Hundreds of hundreds of ships with death milled around us. He says we were at the vortex of the war yet Here we are. We sat there lieutenant chuck conic and I we played jim runny in the wardroom being crossly saying sweet liana over the ship’s phonograph It’s like and what are you gonna do? I mean it’s they’re they’re

Bowing in this and you’re playing cards. See that’s the thing though where What was it like? And that was what it was like

David Campbell (58:09.07)

And Terry, you could send like five 24 hour news channels and TV crews over there and you would not get that level of description and rawness that Ernie Pyle brought. Yep.

Terry Pluto (58:17.365)

Yes, it’s a sink and the fact now he’d been doing this for a long time now He’s been doing this for a couple years. So it’s not like this was his first go around by the way Another phrase to get rid of you ready? Not my first rodeo Yes, it is. None of you guys have ever been in a rodeo. Just shut up unless you’re from wyoming or somewhere

David Campbell (58:41.422)

Alright put that one on the list so alright Terry what are the names of the only pile books again in case people want to check those out?

Terry Pluto (58:42.901)

Not my first rodeo. Okay, the real one that I like is called Ernie’s War. And it’s still available in paperback. He wrote some others, but I like this one because there’s a biographical account of him in the front of it. The editors added different things to kind of put these in context. And I just, you know, if you have somebody who’s a young person interested in writing, and I would...

Now, if I were a history teacher, I wish I knew about Ernie Pyle that year that I was teaching at Lincoln West to get my certification. I think we barely did World War II. You always run out of time. You know, they never did that. He should be taught when you’re teaching the world wars. You know, Stephen Ambrose is one of my favorite historians and he wrote a book called D -Day. He wrote a lot, you know, Citizen’s Soldiers, a lot of wonderful books. I love Stephen Ambrose’s stuff too.

David Campbell (59:38.926)

And you’re right, Terry. Like if you, the best way to learn about history is to go somewhere and see it. But I think the second best is not reading history books where it’s like, this happened on this date, but to actually read something like Ernie Pyle to learn about World War II where it’s somebody there. It’s almost like being there in a lot of ways. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, check that out in Terry’s Faith in You column, which will be online this Saturday on cleveland .com and then in Sunday’s Plain Dealers. So, all right, Terry, we do have some,

Terry Pluto (59:51.445)

Right, written right there.

Yeah, it was. Yeah, that’s what he did.

David Campbell (01:00:08.462)

more emails from listeners about foul ball stories. We’re working through these as we can get to them. We have a couple more here through some nice stories and we appreciate everybody sending them. That’s right. All right. Our first one is from Mark Aiden and Mark is a retired educator and he writes in, it was the summer of 1999. I was a 43 year old lifelong Indians fan. I was born on the East side of town on East 55th. I was appointed to my first principal’s job at Taylor Academy in the Cleveland Heights school district.

Terry Pluto (01:00:15.829)

Well, they keep hitting foul balls, that’s why.

Terry Pluto (01:00:32.533)

Wow.

David Campbell (01:00:37.998)

I attended an Indians game and was on the home run porch when a foul ball careened off the back wall. I rushed to the crowd and out jumped the crowd with one hand grabbing it like a rebound. My first foul ball. The first day of school, we held an assembly and I took the foul ball to the assembly and shared my story with the students. I told them to never give up on their dreams because it took me 43 years to catch my first foul ball.

Terry Pluto (01:01:00.661)

HAHAHAHA

David Campbell (01:01:03.214)

I still feel the energy in the room as the students applauded me standing there with my foul ball in my position. What a great feeling and a great way to motivate students on their first day. I’ll never forget it. Thanks for that letter, Mark. And this next one comes from Steve Boozan and Steve lives in Alexandria, Virginia. And Steve says, hey, Terry, I grew up in Westlake and have always been a fan of all Cleveland sports, even after departing the area to join the Air Force.

Terry Pluto (01:01:15.477)

Mm -hmm.

David Campbell (01:01:29.55)

I still remember I was deployed to Iraq when my mom went to one of your book signings and she mentioned she was getting it signed for me while overseas. You not only signed my book for her, but you also sent me another one. I’ll always remember that and your books are of course still in my collection. As far as my foul ball story, in the middle and late seventies, I often went to Indians games with my friend Bobby. Those were the days we could get a few bucks from our parents, run around the municipal stadium and agree to meet up at the seventh inning stretch.

Terry Pluto (01:01:32.277)

Mmm.

David Campbell (01:01:56.238)

Anyway, I was around 10 or 11 years old when Bobby and I went to a game and managed to make our way up to the front row field box seats just behind third base. Toby Hara came up to bat and hit a rocket right towards us. We both saw it coming and scrambled to get out of the way. Unfortunately for Bobby, he ended up getting hit right on his butt. I then looked down and the ball was right in front of my feet. So I picked it up as my souvenir. We...

Terry Pluto (01:02:07.125)

Hahaha!

Terry Pluto (01:02:16.821)

Eww.

Terry Pluto (01:02:22.805)

Yeah.

David Campbell (01:02:23.502)

We held up the ball and waved to show we were okay to Bobby’s mom who had a seat in the press box. yeah, Bobby’s dad was Bob Quinn, farm director for the tribe. We then went up to see Mrs. Quinn and eat some of the good press box hot dogs. Mr. Quinn arranged for us to meet Toby Hara with him outside the locker room after the game. I remember Toby got a bit of ribbing for hitting Bobby, but it all ended well and I got an autograph. I certainly...

Terry Pluto (01:02:26.037)

the first

Terry Pluto (01:02:31.733)

the farm director, wow.

Terry Pluto (01:02:41.013)

Hahaha!

David Campbell (01:02:49.806)

I snagged a few other foul balls along the way, but that was certainly the most memorable. Thanks for all you do, Terry. And again, that’s from Steve Bouzon in Alexandria, Virginia. So thanks for that. It’s a good one.

Terry Pluto (01:02:58.997)

And Bob went on to BGM. boy. And did I want to say with the giants and really put together a good team there. And as for Toby here, he had a line that I do like that’s been lost when a guy would hit a shot to center field and say like, whether it was miles travel for him or now. The type where Freeman’s made a couple of these back to the cat ball, you know, back to the wall catches.

Excuse me, back to home play catches up against the wall. Toby was safe. See that no money in center field. That was his line. I always liked that one. No money in center field. And it’s almost like, yeah, it’s like, or like you tried hard. He did everything right. And somebody robbed you anyway, you know, there’s a lot of times there’s no money in center field in our life. That actually probably would be a faith column, but,

David Campbell (01:03:39.79)

Meaning you’ll never get a ball to drop and make any money out there, yeah.

David Campbell (01:03:54.094)

I like the one to the keep list for the phrase we want to hear more. That’s a keeper.

Terry Pluto (01:03:56.053)

Yeah, that’s a keeper. Yeah, that’s one that’s been lost along with D -Day. Nobody knows what that is. Or, you know, no money in center field. So, but that’s, there you go. What else do you have there? We’re done. Just say something else, because I’m checking now about Bob Quinn, because it has me wondering about, you know, where he became a GM.

David Campbell (01:04:09.07)

I think we’re done. Right? Anything else you want to mention?

Terry Pluto (01:04:25.909)

and because yes, promote it.

David Campbell (01:04:26.062)

All right, so I want to promote your books real quick. If people want to go to terrypluto .com, they can check out, we were just talking about Terry’s books and all the book signings he’s done over the years. terrypluto .com is a great place to find all of Terry’s books and you can order them and see all that collection. And again, just another quick plug for Terry’s newsletter, go to cleveland .com slash Pluto and click on the blue bar at the top of the webpage and you will see how to sign up for Terry’s weekly newsletter, which we just started.

about a month ago. So, all right, did you find it?

Terry Pluto (01:04:56.213)

Okay. Yes. Bob Quinn briefly. I think he was interim GM with the Yankees. Then he’s with the res 89 to 92 and then with the giants for four years. So, he, he had a nice career and there you are a wonderful, wonderful man. He was great to me. Cause back when I was doing the Indians in the early eighties there, the Toby hair arrows, shall we say, the, they were on my gate Paul and Phil saggy.

David Campbell (01:05:09.966)

Nice.

Terry Pluto (01:05:25.269)

And I always thought that Quinn was the smartest of the bunch and unfortunately they didn’t let him do as much as they should have. And some other teams did and he did very well.

David Campbell (01:05:37.294)

All right, well, that’s gonna do it this week. Thanks everybody for listening again. If you have any comments, questions or follow ball stories you want us to read, send those to sports at cleveland .com. Next week, I will come back with the answer to the burning question, which two major league managers were pitchers? And until then, we will see you next time. we’re gonna be off next week, Terry. So we will see you in two weeks on Terry’s Talking.